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Day 3 Assignment – Bagger Vance
Provide your insights/breakthroughs into what makes this character great from a writing perspective.
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11 Replies
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Junah and Bagger are great characters because they have so much in common, including the fact they play golf in secret, but come from opposite ends of the financial and racial spectrum. The poor African American teaching the resistant rich White male/female where he/she finally achieves understanding at the end of the movie, is cliche.
This scene is saved by having Junah want to learn from Bagger. Also, Junah’s understanding and respect of Baggar begins the movie rather than ends it.
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This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Joan Butler.
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This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Joan Butler.
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This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by
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WATCH 1st TIME FOR:
Where is Junah coming from?
– he’s an alcoholic without any faith in his ability
Where is Bagger Vance coming from?
– I looked it up because I hadn’t seen the movie — he’s a Krishna figure out to coax and coach a reluctant Arjuna figure to engage in battle and win, a golf tournament. He’s portrayed here as a poor black drifter.
What makes them right for their roles in this movie?
– Junah was a local champion, but has lost it and lost his faith in himself (which has driven him to drink). He has a great mid-life hero’s journey to regain it and win.
– Bagger is cheery, helpful, and persistent, but not too pushy. A great mentor role. And because he’s black he fits the “Magical African-American Friend” (a point that got criticized). It probably wouldn’t have worked with a white.
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WATCH 2nd TIME FOR:
What drama was this scene built around?
– Junah is out in the dark (ashamed of himself), seeing whether he has the ability to golf well again.
What traits showed up in these two character’s words and actions?
– Bagger won’t let go, but persists in a gentle way to become Junah’s caddy and coach. It’s gentle, with a touch of gentle sarcasm.
– Junah was worried he may have hit Bagger, worried for his well-being, offers him some food in his house, seeing he’s a drifter who only wants $5 to be his caddy. He offers Bagger some booze, showing the audience he is a heavy drinker (even outside in the yard).
– Junah is reluctant to claim he’s a golfer, but says Bagger is when Bagger hits the ball way out. Bagger demurs, but finally gets Junah to hit it way out.
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Bob Kerr
WATCH 1st TIME:
Where is Junah coming from?
He is emotionally scarred and doesn’t trust himself. He questions whether his past self can be rekindled to rise once again to the glory and admiration of his past before the war.
Where is Bagger Vance coming from?
Bagger is a Jedi Master in search of a pupil. He has learned of the big golf match and seeks to be a spark for the hero’s journey. He wants only a $5 guarantee to emphasize his motive is to enjoy the grace and beauty of the game while being a caddy for a reluctant hero.
What makes them right for their roles in this movie?
The game of golf, as shown in this period piece, is very elitist and classist. Situated in the Deep South, a local boy who has risen to epic achievements on the golf course, is destroyed by the horrors of war and his part in that war. He returns home to be manipulated into playing in a 3 way match game with the two greatest golfers of the era. Junah is so embarrassed by his lack of confidence, he hides in the gloom of evening to practice. Bagger is the cheery ever humble mentor who knows the prowess of Junah and he strives to rebuild Junahs confidence and in the process teach him about the rhythm of life and also golf. The stereotypical relationship, for the time, provides all the subtext for this evolving and powerful relationship.
WATCH the 2ND TIME:
What drama was this scene built around?
Junah is desperate to prove himself. He punishes himself and his frustration fuels his poor performance. Along comes Bagger Vance who has a keen mind, a sharp and appropriate speech and he demonstrates his knowledge through his ability. Once he shows he knows what he is talking about, Junah steps into the role of pupil and see’s immediate results. This sets the stage for the hero’s journey that Junah is on and the temporary physical presence that Bagger Vance will be for a mere $5.
What traits show up in these two characters by their words and actions?
Junah:
Scarred, elitist, impatient and scared
Bagger Vance:
A mystic Jedi Master, polite, accommodating and jovial
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First Watch:
Junah is coming from trauma that has caused him to lose his swing. He wants it back.
Bagger is coming from some “Magical Negro” place. We don’t know his intentions or desires.
Second Watch:
The drama base is the upcoming match.
Junah’s trait of desiring to be a winner shows up.
Bagger’s trait to help shows up
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Right Character Homework scene – Dec. 8, 2022 – Lesson 3 –
“What I learned rewriting my scene/character was I needed to reverse the characters point of view in my scene and the conflict. I had made my main character to enthusiastic and not have any doubts.
Baggar Vance was a traveling angel movie. He comes to Junah when he is hopeless and at the end of the scene, we see Junah has a glimpse of hope to live his life. The scene is about golf being a metaphor for life where you learn that life is about living with what you are given.
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Week 1 Day 3: The “Right Characters” for this story! – THE LEGEND OF BAGGER VANCE
1st viewing:
• Where is Junah coming from?
He has a past as a successful pro golfer. He seems to be financially secure. But he has lost his ‘swing’, his identity.
• Where is Bagger Vance coming from?
He appears in the night, seemingly out of nowhere. He knows much about Junah. He mystical, perhaps from another dimension.
• What makes them right for their roles in this movie?
Junah is struggling to regain his ‘swing’ and regain his identity as a great golfer. Bagger Vance knows all about Junah’s troubles, and has an expert knowledge of the mechanics of golf. He also needs money. So, they can help each other; they need each other.
2nd viewing
• What drama was this scene built around?
It is built around Junah’s struggle to regain his swing and Bagger Vance’s offer to help him as his caddie.
• What traits showed up in these two character’s words and actions?
Junah
– intense
– determined
– kind
Bagger Vance
– mysterious
– knowledgeable
– persistent
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insights/breakthroughs into what makes this character great from a writing perspectiv:
We first meet Junah practicising his swing in the black of night. He is tight lipped, frustrated, discontent, throws one club away, tries another. He is defeated before he gets started – he knows he’s lost his swing, he takes no pleasure in anything but to find the damn swing. His whole approach is wrong….but he cant see this…. This is a great character from a writing perspective because he has a losing mentality, he is too rigid, fixated on the result but not getting there because of his attitude. He will never get there with this attitude and from his stubbornness, may have never got there until he met a man of opposites – Bagger.
Along ambles Bagger, enjoying God’s glories of the night, a man seemingly without a care in the world – a complete contrast to Junah – the complete opposite, with a ‘zen’ approach to life, who also happens to be expert at golf analysis.
Bagger is also a great character from a writing perspective because he has a lot of knowledge to impart and the knowledge he has, besides golf, is also about life. ‘a man’s grip on the club is like a man’s grip on life’. As an audience, we want to know what Bagger knows because it will make us more wise to the ways of life – and we also know that Bagger’s relaxed approach is exactly what uptight, damaged Junah needs. Bagger has his own troubles but they haven’t damaged him. And just like that, once Junah has tested Bagger with his golf skills, he opens to listen and swings his best swing yet. Also, Bagger repeated his exact problem back to him’ you lost your swing ‘ so we know from a writing perspecitve, that there is an opportunity, through Bagger, to help Junah get his swing back and win the competition and from an audience perspective, it feels like it’s going to be a fun and worthwhile journey getting there.
What I learned..
Insights I gained from the above is to have the potential to introduce a character that mirrors the opposite of my character’s more negative traits – to offer a ‘teacher’ a guide, someone whose personality exactly compliments my character’s wounded traits. It has given me a deeper insight into my secondary character, offering more reason to the traits I attribute them. I haven’t rewritten a scene yet with this in mind, but it is now in my mind and helps define with more precision my characters’ traits and complimentary character traits.
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Bagger Vance: sees the big picture and the growth and work Junah still has to do—that will affect many people both presently alive and (in the future) about to die.
Right for the roles: Bagger has supernatural knowledge somehow about how Junah’s life fits into the cosmos—and can support and heal him as he helps him learn what he must. Juhan is traumatized and must heal and get back into life for the benefit of many, as well as himself.
Drama the scene was built around: a stranger materializes out of the night and knows way too much about this traumatized golfer when he offers to caddy for him at the exhibition match.
Traits in Juhah’s words:
· An assertive fighter who has (mostly) given up: “you going to hit the ball or you gonna dance with it” “Hit the ball.” “I don’t need a caddie. I’m not playing.
· Generous: offers food, to let Bagger hit.
· Great golfer: “You’re a golfer” (recognizes skill)
Traits in Juhna’s actions:
· An assertive fighter who has (mostly) given up: though he’s declined to play, he’s out working on his swing late at night.
· Generous: offers Bagger food, to hit balls
· Great golfer whose swing is off: keeps trying.
Traits in Bagger’s words:
· Supernatural knowledge: “big match coming up. Fella gonna be needing a caddie.” “The trick is to find your swing” (based on Juha’s reaction he’s previously said he’s lost his swing/needs to find it, in these exact words). “I ain’t seen a man hit a ball like that since the north-south championship of 1916.”
· Challenges people: “that depends. You a golfer?” “Don’t make no sense, is all. Man say he don’t play no golf, yet he out here in this shade of night, hitting balls off in the dark where he can’t even see ‘em.” I ain’t seen a man hit a ball like that since the north-south championship of 1916. You know they stopped play for 20 minutes to figure out how far it went—“ reminding him of his previous ability as a challenge. “You lost your swing. We got to go find it.”
· POV: Glorifies God: “taking in some of God’s glories.” “Lord knows…”
· Poetic/speaks in metaphor “yeah, the rhythm of game, just like the rhythm of life” “grip on his club like his grip on the world.” “Somewhere in the harmony of all that is, all that was, all that will be…” “shade of night”
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Traits in Bagger’s actions:
· Supernatural knowledge: doesn’t get hit by the golf ball and isn’t worried he might; walks right in front of Juhna because his ‘off’ swing isn’t sending the ball that way. Great swing even though he “don’t play golf.” Knows Juhna lost his swing, which disturbs Juhna.
· Challenges people: keeps talking to Juhna, even as Juhna’s annoyed. Offers to caddy—for $5 guarantee. His low-ball explained by his lack of faith that Juhna will play and will play well.
· POV: Glorifies God: grateful, seems to obedient to some kind of healing authority
· Poetic/Speaks in metaphor: as above
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Haven’t seen the movie so these are my guess from the scene and from the synopsis I read:
1st watch:
– Where is Junah coming from? Junah was the golf champion of the “North South Championship 1916” and has stopped playing golf for many years. He has to play again and win a competition with high stakes.
– Where is Bagger Vance coming from? I guess he’s a golf player too but I believe African Americans didn’t have the same rights at that time so that’s why he says he’s a caddie. He came to encourage Junah to go back to training and find his swing again.
– What makes them right for their roles in this movie? Junah was a Champion who now has doubts and refuses to play. Bagger Vance seems to be an expert and a great “coach”, he truly believes in Junah as a great admirer, he wants him to be back in the game.
2nd watch:
– What drama was this scene built around? Junah didn’t play golf for years and now has to win a competition with high stakes. As he lost his golf swing, he trains in the dark, even if he doesn’t want to play the match. While he hit some balls, a man holding a suitcase appears from the dark. Bagger Vance came to encourage Junah to play again. Junah doesn’t like how Bagger Vance pressures him but he’ll prove him Junah can get his swing back.
– What traits showed up in these two character’s words and actions?
JUNAH: self-doubt, generous, incredulous, impatient
BAGGER VANCE: patient, supportive, great adviser, playful, likes to tease, provocative, truly believes in Junah, smart, loves to play with words, humble
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This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Mi Lock.
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This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by
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Right Character Homework scene – Dec. 8, 2022 – Lesson 3 –
“What I learned rewriting my scene/character was I needed to reverse the characters point of view in my scene and the conflict. I had made my main character to enthusiastic and not have any doubts.
Baggar Vance was a traveling angel movie. He comes to Junah when he is hopeless and at the end of the scene we see Junah has a glimpse of hope to live his life. The scene is about golf being a metaphor for life where you learn that life is about living with what you are given.
I thought this information I found out about the book the movie was written from is interesting. Thought I’d share it.
For the record, the character “Bagger Vance” is NOT a black man. The book, “The Legend of Bagger Vance” is a play off of The Bhagavad Gita. The character “Junuh” represents “Arjuna” (a light-skinned Indian warrior) and “Bagger Vance” represents “Krishna” (Arjuna’s dark-skinned friend and advisor). If you are unfamiliar with The Bhagavad Gita, “Krisha” is the incarnation of GOD.
The author, Steven Pressfield, had publicly written about this long before his book was turned into a movie.
And so, in The Legend of Bagger Vance, “Bagger Vance” is NOT a black guy. He is “God” who has taken the temporary form of a man (who happens to be black) in order to assist Junuh. That assistance, however, while superficially about “golf”, is actually about “life” in general, and specifically about “self-realization.”
“Winning a golf tournament” was just the mechanism the author used to convey a much deeper spiritual message (whereas the mechanism used in The Bhagavad Gita was “winning a military battle.”)
Therefore, Spike Lee’s criticism of this movie is very misguided. “Bagger Vance” is NOT a black man… he’s not even a man… he’s one of the unlimited incarnations of God. In fact, it is even suggested that this kind of “divine guidance” is provided to everyone (not just “Junuh”) at all times, if they only openminded enough to receive it. Therefore, complaining about “Bagger Vance” helping a white guy with his golf swing instead of black people who were being lynched is incorrect because the “divine guidance” represented by “Bagger Vance” would also be there to help black people with their problems… but that reality is beyond the scope of the book/movie.
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What I learned: I have never watched this movie. It looks formulaic and I can only assume that Junah wins the tournament. What I do think is helpful is the way subtext is used as the characters talk around each other. I can use this in my script.
First time:
Where is Junah coming from? A place of frustration but he is still determined. Where is Bagger Vance coming from? Easy confidence. What makes them right for their roles in this movie? Matt Damon is not my favorite actor, but he plays annoyed very well. Will Smith is awesome and built for this role.<div>
Second time:
What drama was this scene built around? A random man wanders out of the woods right into another man’s existential crisis. What traits showed up in these two characters’ words and actions? Bagger seems to know what to say to spur Junah to hire him and help him find his swing.
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